Ask Pastor Mike Fabarez

Speaker 1

Well, St. Patrick's Day is coming up this weekend. Are you going to get dressed up in green?

Well, before the celebrations start, we're joining Pastor Mike Fabarez for a special St. Patrick's Day conversation right here on Focal Point. Welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host, Dave Drouy. You know, I look forward to this time every week when we get to chat with our pastor and Bible teacher Mike Fabarez about some relevant and timely topics.

And if you have a question you'd like to ask Pastor Mike, I'll explain how you can get in touch and get your question answered at the end of the program.

Well, today we're revisiting a fascinating conversation from a few years ago between Focal Point's executive director Jay Worton and Pastor Mike that they shared on the heels of St. Patty's Day. Let's get started.

Speaker 2

Pastor Mike,

Yesterday was St. Patrick's Day. I noticed you didn't wear green, but for most people, that's a day to wear green or drink green beer, as it seems like.

And they don't give much thought to who St. Patrick was. So we had a question on St. Patrick. Who is this guy?

Speaker 3

Well, I didn't wear green because I don't have much green in my closet and I don't drink beer, so it wouldn't matter what color it is.

So obviously this is based on a historic figure. There's a lot of fabled, mythical things, sometimes that have grown up around the story of St. Patrick, as he's called. Patrick was a missionary to Ireland in the fifth century. And, you know, what we do recognize from what we know of him is he was a very humble man.

I mean, the one literary work that we do have that is undisputed is His Confessions. I know we think of Augustine and his Confessions. Well, Patrick also wrote a literary work called the Confessions, in which a lot like Augustine, there was a real penitent heart. He often, in other references to his life, called himself a sinner. He realized his need for grace.

He had a heart for the Irish and wanted to go as a missionary to win them to Christ. He gave himself over to that task so wholly that the things that are said of him and things that are credited to him that he did say are just great statements of a zealous man with a fearless ambition to see people won to Christ.

And, of course, he made an impact. So much so that we're still talking about him today.

Speaker 2

There are a few saints on the calendar. St. Valentine, which we had last month, and St. Patrick this month. How should we as Christians be looking at these men who are honored in this way?

Speaker 3

Right. Well, we need to be careful about this. You use the word saint. If you use it from a biblical perspective, it comes from the Greek word in the New Testament, holy. And if it's used in reference to people, it's meaning that we are set apart. That's what the basis of the word holy is, to be set apart for God. So every Christian is a saint in that sense. Every Christian is set apart by God's work through the justification that we find in the atoning work of Christ. So in that sense, it's St. John J. and St. Mike here. Right? I mean, it's what we are in Christ.

Now, you can use that in an absolute sense and talk about people that are Christians. As we see in the Bible, Paul writes to people in churches and speaks to everyone in the congregation as saints. But then we can use the word in a relative sense, I suppose, and say, well, that guy's really holy. He's more like Christ in his behavior. And so we do see that in our conversations about people that are more holy than others.

But the third way that usually is so common in our society is that someone that's been canonized by the Roman Catholic Church. And so these people that we talk about are people that have been canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, which for us is neither here nor there. We don't have that same perspective of venerating the saints and putting them up on some shelf and saying, now they have some special abilities to do some things as intercessors for us. So that's off the table for us.

For me, certainly as a Protestant, what I'm concerned about is, you know, people being set apart increasingly in their sanctification. So in our justification, we are saints from the day we become a Christian. And then we want to be more saintly, if you will, as the Bible says, to be more and more holy in all of our behavior.

These people that we call saints, regardless of what the Catholic Church calls them, we certainly see these are some really godly people, and they did some godly things. And for that, we're grateful. Particularly way back in the fifth century when we're talking about Patrick, he is a motivation, I think, for any career missionary who has studied something about Patrick that became motivating for them to go reach their foreign lands for Christ. Then he should be a motivation for us to live right in our neighborhood, in our own zip code, being vocal and passionate about seeing our neighbors won for Christ.

Speaker 2

Clearly, these men did great things for God in their lifetimes, and that's why they've been put on the calendar at such an early time.

Taking that a little bit further, are there people in our lives that we should look to or in history that we should look to that maybe we need to imitate? You mentioned Paul, and he talks about imitating himself, right?

Speaker 3

Many times more than most people think. It's very popular today for Christians to say, you know, don't look to me, don't follow me. I'm pointing to Christ. Follow Christ. But in the Bible, we see something very different, and that is that Christians, as they grow in their sanctification, are clearly saying, listen, I'll show you the ropes here, and follow me as I follow Christ and watch how I deal with my family, watch how I raise my kids. Not with pride, not with some ostentatious transparency. Transparency, and come and study at my feet.

But clearly we ought to be a role model for other people, and people from the past become role models for us. As I said, there's not probably a missionary out there, at least from a Christian perspective, that hasn't studied Patrick and some of these others, William Carey and so many others that have gone out and set a, you know, blaze the trail in terms of their modeling of an abandon and a zeal for evangelism. And so that's good.

But we need those models in our lives that are living, that are not just historical fit. But, yeah, there ought to be people we look to and say, I really admire the way that he follows Christ or she reflects Christ in her life, and I would like to learn from that. And we need that, and we should have that. That's the pattern of the Scripture.

Paul not only said, follow me as I follow Christ, but he said, take note of people that have this pattern of behavior in their lives and follow them. He says, at the end of 1 Corinthians, note these people here. And he names some people. He says, these people, they are examples to the church and we ought to follow them.

Matter of fact, every pastor shouldn't even be qualified to lead in a church unless, according to Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3, unless they're models and examples to the flock, as is specifically said in 1 Peter 5. So examples are good. We need them.

What we need to avoid, though, as I mentioned earlier, is putting them in some category that grants them some kind of mystical or spiritual capacity that I'm now to pray to them or I'm looking to them to intercede for me. That's not the biblical picture, but there is a biblical picture. For me to be an example to other Christians and to seek examples in my church, in my broader exposure to Christians, to say, I'd like to be more like that guy as he follows.

Speaker 2

Christ, well, that certainly puts a high level accountability, not just on pastors, but Christians themselves as they have to recognize that clearly somebody may be watching them and using them as a model or a pattern for their lives.

Speaker 3

And that's why people avoid this, right? They don't want that pressure. That's why it's, hey, it's just one beggar telling another beggar where to find bread. I mean, we love those phrases because it takes all the onus and all the pressure off of me of being any kind of model. You know, we're not perfect, we're just forgiven. I can slap that on my car, drive around with it, and then I can drive, you know, like a non-Christian.

You know, we need to realize that we are an example and we should seek to be an example. You know, you could put a false guise of humility on and say, well, I just want people to look to Christ. Stop with that thinking. That's not biblical thinking. Of course we want people to look to Christ.

But the Bible says there ought to be a fleshing out of real Christianity in my life. That is some kind of encouragement, motivation, some kind of example to other believers. That's a biblical expectation, not just for your pastors and your leaders, but for every Christian as we grow up in Christ.

Speaker 2

Thank you, Pastor Mike. That is a great conversation and we're going to wrap up this edition of Ask Pastor Mike from a message you gave called People who Make a Difference.

Speaker 4

Look with me in First Corinthians, chapter 4. In verse 16, he says something and many of us trip over this. He says, "I urge you to imitate me, mimic me, take my life and kind of just replicate it." He says, "Now I can't be there. I'm sending you Timothy. I love him. He's like a kid to me. He's a faithful person in the Lord." He says, "And he will remind you"—bottom of verse 17—"of my way of life in Christ Jesus."

Which, circle this word, "agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church." Look at the equation and the fulcrum of it. It agrees. What agrees? My way of life. Underline that with what I teach here. The Apostle Paul says, "What I've done when I was with you and what I do everywhere is I practice what I preach. I talk about things and the way things ought to be as a Christian, and then I live it out."

And because of that consistency in my life, what I can do to you is represent my life as a template for you. You want to know how to live the Christian life in first-century Asia Minor? Watch me live it. See, that sounds like some weird, cultic, controlling discipleship program. Remember this and put it in the...

Speaker 3

Margin if it's not already there.

Speaker 4

First Corinthians 11:1. Paul says, "Follow me as I follow Christ." See, I'm not saying, you know, I. It's about me. He says, no, it's about Christ. But as I live out the principles of Christianity in the modern world, follow that pattern.

Okay, now there are two ways we can trip over this. First of all, we can just think about it on the receiving end: wow, we gotta live like the Apostle Paul. Okay, get past that. Because we've moved from the sandals of the Corinthians. Now we're in the sandals of Paul. I want us to think and glean from his perspective what it's like to say that. Then you can trip over the arrogance that may be in your mind inherent in a statement like that. "Follow me. You know, act like me." Get past all that, and you mitigate that by First Corinthians 11:1. This is about Christ. But insofar as Paul lives out the Christian life in his sandals, he says, "Mimic my life," okay?

Now get past those two hurdles, and what am I left with? I'm left with thinking through my life in a way that a non-Christian never could. Because all of a sudden, now I hold my life up. When I say, "Listen, what I do, how I work, how I love my wife, how I encounter difficulties, how I train my children," all of a sudden in my life, as I now hold it up publicly—whether I'm mentoring and discipling someone and I let them into my workplace, I let them see how I act in my family—whatever that openness is and that consistency of practicing what you preach, all of a sudden now your daily life has meaning. It moves from just going through the motions of work and eating and sleeping, and now it becomes a pattern.

See, I read these really depressing lists of people's testimonies this week. Non-Christians who sit there, passage after passage, and say, "I don't know what life's all about. I really don't know why I'm in the rat race." They call it the treadmill; they say it's just up and down. I've read all these depressing things about people saying, "I really don't see any meaning and purpose in my life." And yet here's the Apostle Paul saying, even the most mundane things can be an opportunity for you to bring glory to God as people see you do it in a Christlike manner. As a matter of fact, he says, "Whether I eat or drink, whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God." You can put your life on display so clearly that the Christianity of your life can be reflected in how you eat a burrito.

This week it comes down to the mundane issues of life. Now all of a sudden, my life becomes meaningful. See, all of a sudden, now everything you do has a meaning and a purpose.

Number two on your outline: we need to enjoy that—enjoy living a life not like everybody else that's headed to the office tomorrow morning who wonders why we're doing it. To earn a paycheck, to spend it, to buy food, to sleep, to watch TV. And what is it all about? For us, it's all about showing what Christlike living looks like. As Christ put it, "Let your light so shine before men."

Here's one of the problems with modern ministry. I go to pastor seminars sometimes where I sit there at these conferences, and these well-meaning seminar directors talk about how pastors can kind of insulate their life. "Here's how to screen your phone calls, and here's how you get unlisted. And here's how you run away from your people and don't have too many friendships in the church." As a matter of fact, all your friendships should be outside. I've heard the most absurd things, and I want to raise my hand and say, "Well, in the Bible I was reading, you know, I don't know which one you're reading, but Jesus didn't quite have that perspective on ministry."

As a matter of fact, he led his life so intertwined with the people he was trying to lead that every day, every waking hour, they watched him eat, they watched him sleep, they watched him encounter difficulty and hunger and thirst and joy. They watched him do all that, and they learned from it. Jesus said the same thing, and Paul said the same thing, and Peter said the same thing. You can't be a talking head. You can't be isolated. You can't drop the gospel bomb in your small group Bible study and try and live an independent life. When you start to feel like your life's becoming a fishbowl, don't run from that. That's the effective part of ministry.

And you say, "Okay, God, it's all right." I was in Office Max not long ago, having one of those nightmarish experiences with a 17-year-old salesman. I was there for over an hour, and I was dumb enough to have started this adventure with my family in tow, right? Got a pregnant wife, I got two kids that found out that those office chairs roll really well on the tile floors. I got problems with the merchandise, with the shipping, with something. And we're going round and round, and it's nuts, it's nightmarish. You know, I gotta go home, and the kids... Well, I'd spent an hour there or so, finally ready to check out. I come up toward the front, and this guy walks up to me, a customer, not unemployed, and he says, "Hi, Pastor Mike." And so, you know, we exchanged our pleasantries and, "Hey, how you doing?"

Speaker 3

Great.

Speaker 4

Okay. What are you buying? Eraser's great. I wish I were, you know, but yeah, good to meet you. Good to know you. Great. Didn't think much of it.

About a month later, I get an email. This guy writes me, he says, you know, I got a confession to make. He said, I saw you in the store about a half an hour before I came up to introduce myself, and I was watching you thinking, oh great. He said, I was watching how you dealt with the employee, and I was watching how you dealt with your kids, and watching how you kept reassuring your wife and you hugged her. I just watched your life, and it was so encouraging for me and it was so instructive for me. I watched how the stuff you go through, same stuff I go through, and I watched how it's supposed to be done. And it's an amazing thing. Though you may not have felt like you were teaching in that half hour, you were; you were teaching me. Thanks.

Even with a bad situation at an office supply store, here, God's saying, you know, what an opportunity for you to let your life so shine before men. Even in the trenches of daily life, where people can say, I'm going to learn a little bit about what it means to be a Christian by watching this person, even the difficulties will be redemptive. And now all of a sudden, even my suffering becomes meaningful. I don't say, God, I wish it away; I think, God, you know what, I don't like the pain. But if it can be a redemptive experience and do something positive in the lives of people and show them how to live the Christian life in a very non-Christian and painful world, then so be it. And I'm glad to do it.

At the end of his life, Leonard Woolf, a very prolific and, by the world standard, successful person, had written all kinds of books. Born in London, educated at the best schools, had influenced all the world, or so it seemed. At the end of his life, he wrote this: he said, I see clearly that I've achieved practically nothing. So the world today and the history of the human anthill during the past five to seven years would be exactly the same if I'd played ping pong instead of sitting on committees and writing books and memoranda.

Paul, at the end of his life, wrote this in 2 Timothy, chapter 4. He says, Timothy, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill and discharge the duties of your ministry. You know, my life, it's ready to be poured out like a drink offering. The time has come for my departure. But I fought the good fight. I finished the race. I have kept the faith. There is in store for me, he says, now a crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award me on that day, but not just to me, but to all who long for his appearing. Man, I'm ready to go. And it was good.

There's an old book, I've quoted it to you before. It's called the Last Words of Saints and Sinners. It's kind of antiquated, and there are lots of old stories in it, but it is fascinating and dramatic to read the contrast between the people who have lived their lives in the spotlight of the world but have not invested in kingdom work. They sit there at the end of their life and go, it feels meaningless and useless. And then to turn the page and to read of these saints who've lived their life in a godly manner, investing and sacrificing people, and at the end of their life, like the apostle Paul, they reflect this wonderful satisfaction that this was a life well spent.

You got a choice to make, and you might have a more convenient life. Your calendar may be freer than mine, you might have a few more perks, and you might get the promotions at work, and you may excel in the world. But when it's all said and done, the difference is amazing to be able to say my life was lived in such a way that people came and learned from me. It brings meaning to every part of life.

The last four verses look at them with me in 1 Corinthians 4. He says some things here that may seem so biting and so harsh that it's hard to find a benefit here. But I think you'll see it if you grab it in context. He says in verse 18, some of you have become arrogant, as if I weren't coming to you, but I will come to you very soon, if the Lord is willing. And then I will find out not only how these arrogant people are talking, but he says what power they have. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of chit-chat and talk. It's a matter of power, of life change, of truth, of truths that transform people's lives.

What do you prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip or shall I come to you in love with a gentle spirit? I mean, this is some harsh language. And I remember grappling with this this week, and I was up to my neck in commentaries and Greek verbs. And I'm going 100 miles an hour, and my cell phone rings.

Hello? Carlin says hi. She said, your kids. I always know it's bad when it starts with your kids, right? She said, your boys are out of control. They're not listening to me. I don't feel well. Can you help me? I'm reading this: Shall I come to you with a whip or in love with a gentle spirit? I said, I'll be there in five minutes.

I get to the house, I open the kids' bedroom door. They're on their beds, their eyes are big. They know they've crossed a major line. We had a memorable disciplinary experience. But before it was done, and I was only home for a few minutes, we were done with the crying, we were done with the discipline. We all came downstairs, we stood in the kitchen before I left and went to my car. We held hands in a circle, we prayed, we asked God to help us obey the rules. We talked about obeying our parents. We confessed our sin before God, and we prayed for wisdom as parents to help lead these kids well.

Tears were dried, frowns turned to smiles, and there were hugs and kisses and I can't wait to see you after work, Daddy. And before I walk down the hall to get back in my car to head back to work, Carlin said to me, I'm really sorry I had to call you. I couldn't help, especially reading this passage, to stop and tell her, honey, don't apologize for that. I said, and if we have the opportunity as parents to shape these little rebellious pagan spirits and move them away from danger and sin into the path of righteousness, I said, we will spare them scars and pains that they would otherwise carry with them for the rest of their lives.

There's no better use of my time; it's the best coffee break I had all week. And I think the Apostle Paul is sitting here saying, you know, it's not pleasant to talk about discipline, and it's not a good thing to sit here and to say, I got to come and I got to straighten things out and there's problems. But the Apostle Paul at night could lay there in his sleeping bag and look up at the stars and say, you know what? I'm glad I've got the privilege to shape these lives and to steer them clear of problems.

Because of my involvement in their lives, they will be different people. At night, when you lay in bed and stare at the ceiling, when you give yourself sacrificially for the ministry, be glad that you, because of your presence in that person's life, sometimes painful, sometimes confrontation, sometimes rebuke, is a presence that will forever redirect their path. That doesn't happen by accident, doesn't come without a price tag, but it comes when we're willing to go the extra mile and say, I'll help someone pursue Christ.

These corrective moments, for Paul, they weren't pleasant. But in the secret, quiet moments of his life, he can say, I'm glad I've made a difference. And those people, the Apostle Paul, to them, was it; you were the tool God used. There's no better way to live. That's what God has called us to do.

Pray with me. God, help us. In the midst of the pain, of the sacrifice, or the extra night, or the fatigue, we're going to say, man, this is too hard. Maybe I should back off. And yet Paul has shown us by example that even difficult ministry is worth it. Surrounding a life of sacrifice is a life and a heart that's filled with joy and gratitude and satisfaction.

Oh, God, the externals are hard, and sometimes it hurts. And it's a rocky path. It's difficult. But, God, how great it is to give ourselves fully, to give ourselves in a way that really hurts, that moves beyond our comfort zone, to help somebody else. Because in that act is a long list of blessings that we only scratch the surface. God, we love you for this challenge. We love you for providing us the template. God, we want to become a template. Use us in ministry this week, next week, this month, next year, to do good things in and through us. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.

Speaker 1

Yes, amen. People who make a difference. Enjoying the Privilege is the title of today's message from pastor and Bible teacher Mike Fabarez. It's part of our conversations about how we can relate to and learn from godly role models like St. Patrick.

You're listening to Focal Point and today's program is part of our special weekly segment called Ask Pastor Mike. Now, if you have your own question you'd like Pastor Mike to address, you can submit it online at focalpointradio.org or send us your question through facebook@facebook.com/pastormike. We'd love to hear from you as a Focal Point listener. We know you're passionate about God's mission and like Pastor Mike just prayed, we want you to be ready and willing to be used in his ministry.

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Well, I'm your host, Dave Drewey. Be sure to come back again next time as we continue exploring God's word right here on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.