Speaker 1
You're married, but are you prepared to go the distance? Or maybe you're engaged and want to make sure you get off on the right track. Right now on Focal Point, you'll hear a special discussion on marriage with Mike Fobarez and his wife. So stay tuned.
Welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host, Dave Droue. And on today's edition of Ask Pastor Mike, we've got a real treat for the ladies in the house. We're getting a woman's perspective on the important topic of building the biblical marriage.
Just what does it mean to put Christ at the center of a marriage, and how does that affect your relationship day to day? Well, let's join Pastor Mike and Focal Point executive director Jay Wurton inside the pastor study for the answers from a male and female perspective.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Dave. I am here with Pastor Mike, and I'm also joined by a special guest, Pastor Mike's wife, Carlyn Fabarez. Hi, Carlyn.
Speaker 3
Hi.
Speaker 4
That's awesome.
Speaker 2
Well, thank you both for being here. You know, at Focal Point, we do get a lot of questions about marriage, and so we thought it'd be a good idea to answer a few of those together and see what the Bible has to say about marriage and how you guys achieve that in your own relationship.
But first, I think we need some background. I thought it might be nice if you guys shared how you met and ultimately got married.
Speaker 4
Actually met way back in high school, didn't we?
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 4
Seems like forever ago, but we. I was a senior and she was a junior, and I had seen you on campus before.
Speaker 3
Every time I looked at him, he laughed.
Speaker 4
Yes, I did smile at you when I saw you. That was easy to do. Yes. And then we finally had a class together.
Speaker 3
We did.
Speaker 4
And I happened to sit. It was weird because the class, as you remember, was like in a U shape.
Speaker 3
It was.
Speaker 4
And so I sat across from you.
Speaker 3
Sat right across from me. I remember that.
Speaker 4
That was God just kind of putting my face right on. On your face there. And that was very pleasant, very nice. And I was obviously infatuated with Carlin.
Speaker 3
Well, I don't know obvious to who.
Speaker 4
But it was obvious to you because I laughed at you every time I saw you.
Speaker 3
Okay, well, yes.
Speaker 4
Smiled more smile. Let's make it sound more. More romantic.
Speaker 2
Nothing like laughing at somebody that you don't know always is endearing.
Speaker 4
Yes.
Speaker 3
It was kind of a smirk, actually.
Speaker 4
I did smirk. That was. Yeah, I guess I did. But I mean, we were so young. I mean, I remember. I remember the day I really smirked at you. Try to. I tried to get you to smile because you got your braces off that day.
So, anyway, yeah, so we met in high school. We ended up starting to date there in high school my senior year. And then I went off to college. I went to Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, which I know a lot of our listeners know that.
Speaker 3
And I stayed home and finished high school.
Speaker 4
Right. Had a year in high school. And then she went to the UCI University of California, Irvine. An anteater.
Speaker 3
Go Anteaters.
Speaker 4
That's right. So she did two years there.
I was coming home for Christmas and spring break. Well, I wasn't coming home for spring break; I was coming home for Christmas for summer.
And we kept our relationship alive long distance, back before cell phones and texting.
Speaker 3
So, yes, we had really high phone bills. I worked at fast food places just to pay my phone bills.
Speaker 4
I was selling shoes in downtown Chicago trying to earn enough money to pay for my phone bill.
And then, thankfully, after dating for as long as we did, you came out to Moody as a Moody student in Chicago, and we were finally in the same place geographically.
Speaker 3
That's right. After two years apart.
Speaker 4
Yeah. After two years apart. Yeah. So that was great. I finished up my education in Chicago. I got engaged at the senior banquet. Kneeled down on the shores of Lake Michigan.
Speaker 3
Yes, you did.
Speaker 4
It was the closest way I could get to a California engagement.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
I was nowhere near the ocean.
Speaker 3
Yes. But it kind of looks like the ocean.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Kind of. Without the waves. But anyway. Yes. I asked you to marry me that night. And I said, I'm going to go work in Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 3
Yes. But before that, we had a very serious conversation.
Speaker 4
We did break up. I guess we should share that.
Speaker 3
For 12 hours.
Speaker 4
We did break up. For 12 hours. Yes. Because I remember thinking, I have no idea what I'm gonna do. But I know when I met my girlfriend, who's now my wife, I had a lot of plans for my life that did not, I knew, were not gonna materialize.
And so God was changing the direction of my life. I was falling in love with teaching the Bible, and I knew I wasn't going to have that life that I thought I was going to have.
So I remember saying to you, Carlin, I want to marry you, but I have no idea if you're up for it, because I have no clue where God is taking me. And I might be a missionary in some foreign land.
Speaker 3
Well, he actually said, I'm going to go do anything for God anytime, any place. Basically. And if you're. Yeah, you recognize that. Basically he said, I'm going to do anything for God and I want to know if you want to go with me.
Speaker 4
Right. Because I didn't know where that would be. So I know I wanted to do life with you, but I didn't have any clue where that would take us.
So I did say to you and at least was honest with you, if we're going to continue on in this relationship, you just got to be ready to do anything.
And I think that scared you for those 12 hours or however long we were broken up.
Speaker 3
Yes. No, it definitely scared me as a 19-year-old girl and I thought, wow, I have no idea what that means except that I already knew where you were going. I knew you were gifted, I knew you were going to be serving the Lord.
And I also knew that that would mean potentially that I was going to be doing a lot of my life without you because you would be out serving the Lord. And I wasn't sure what the ramifications for that would be with raising children and all that.
And it scared me. And I said, I don't know that I'm ready to do that with you.
Speaker 4
That was fun.
Speaker 3
We knew that basically we were breaking up at that point. Nobody said those words. We just walked away.
And then that night the Lord just really wouldn't let me sleep. Made me realize that when I became a Christian, I told him I would do anything for him. So this was just now the next anything.
And so then I was ready to go. And by the next morning I was calling you back and saying, okay, I don't know where you're going, but I'm ready to go with you, Brian.
Speaker 4
I said, I'm sorry, I've moved on.
Speaker 3
Yeah, you did. No, I didn't.
Speaker 4
That's right. I got a new girl heading to the mission field.
Speaker 3
That's right.
Speaker 4
Now I didn't say any of that.
Speaker 3
Yes, of course he took me back. He took me back.
Speaker 4
Yes, well, of course I did. And it was an answer to prayer, and I'm so glad. And so then I did, I bought a ring. The next week we got engaged, and so then we went off to serve the Lord in Tucson, Arizona.
We went from the freezing cold of Chicago because we both grew up in Long Beach, California. So we had perfect weather as kids. We then moved to Chicago, where it was freezing.
I took a job at First Baptist Church in Tucson and served as their college director. I was talking about that today with someone, just how hot it was in Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 3
Can't even put your hands on your steering wheel when you get in the car.
Speaker 4
Right. So we did a year of engagement in Tucson, and then we got married.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 4
After a year of engagement. So we dated for several years. Four and a half years.
Speaker 3
Four and a half years total before we got married.
Speaker 4
Yep. And then we got.
Speaker 3
We were youngins. We were young, 20 and 21.
Speaker 4
That was good. And we started ministry together. And of course, Carlin and I haven't really known much of our lives without doing ministry together.
As Christians, Christ is first, and that has been something we've been used to from the beginning. We've been doing Christianity in different contexts as God took us from Tucson back to Southern California, where we've been pastoring for 30 years.
We've been through a lot, growing and seeing churches develop. We've learned how to do marriage together in the very busy life of ministry, which has been quite hectic.
Speaker 3
Yep.
Speaker 4
It's hard to kind of. Everyone's got a hard life. Everyone's got, you know, certain challenges. But our challenges were to try to serve people as best we could.
Opportunities to teach and to lead in churches and just try to live out, you know, our Christianity in front of other people and try and, you know, do our best to serve the Lord in a local church setting.
And we've been doing that together now for how many years? How many years have we been married?
Speaker 3
32.
Speaker 4
32.
Speaker 3
So basically, our entire adult lives, we've been married and doing ministry together.
Speaker 4
Yep. That's our story, and we're sticking to it, Jay.
Speaker 3
Yes, we are.
Speaker 2
So clearly, as you guys became Christians, you knew God had a role for your lives in serving him.
But also, there are roles that you each have to each other, and there are biblical roles for husband and wife.
Maybe you could speak a little bit to what the biblical role of a husband is and what the biblical role of a wife is.
Speaker 4
We understand in scripture, obviously, that there is an ideal that Jesus and the Apostle Paul and others in scripture have carried out of being fully committed, fully focused on the Lord in ministry, when God calls you to that without marriage. And we value that. We value singleness. We've always valued singleness in the churches and the ministries that we've led.
But we understand there's something for those of us that are called to marriage where you're teaming together to serve the Lord, to glorify God, and, you know, you're bringing to that relationship different roles. I mean, we come to complement each other with a real belief that we're going to be better together serving the Lord than we would be by ourselves. In part because we know we're called to a relationship, and we're not content without that kind of relationship in our lives.
So we recognize what that means in Scripture. You can't have, as I often say, and I'm sure my listeners have heard this in some sermons, but the only thing with two heads is a monster, right? So we've got to go back to scripture and decide, what does the Bible have to say about marriage? And of course, the Bible says that the husband is going to be the head of the home, and together we're going to team to serve the Lord.
But we recognize it's not about trying to pretend that we're both going to pursue God's calling in any direction. As long as, you know, we think we're hitting that mark, we got to say, okay, God has called me, in this case as the husband, to serve the Lord in a particular context. And my wife is coming along and saying, I am ready to connect with you as a teammate in this as a complement to what God is calling you to do.
And the great thing about my wife is she's been so good at trying to help me really accomplish all that God has called me to be. Which, of course, doesn't mean she didn't have her own ministry. She has a great expanding ministry on her own. But the idea of helping me become who God has called me to be and gifted me to be and assigned me to be in his church.
And so, you know, Carlin is a pastor's wife. She's a supporter in my life in every way that she can be. And she does it so well. But that's, I mean, that's kind of how we see this. And I know you recognize that. I mean, there's no way around the fact that when you stepped into this marriage, you realized, you know, I want to help Mike pursue the calling that God has placed on his life and be able to accentuate that as best I can as a teammate.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. And that, I would say, is my role. My role is, as Genesis 2 says, to be a helpmate and to be the supporter of my husband in reaching the potential that God has for him.
And that can play itself out in a million different ways: being his cheerleader, being his supporter, being his encourager, being the person who's standing next to him. Sometimes physically, when he needs me there.
It's a variety of things, but, yes, the overarching principle is being a helper, being the person that can do whatever it takes to move him along in what God's called him to do.
Speaker 4
First Corinthians 7 says, it's not just me saying, okay, pursue my calling. It's great. I got a great teammate, and we're together going to do this. It's also taking on the responsibility as a husband to be a caregiver, a provider, a protector, a defender of my wife. So it's not just, you know, I picked up a great, you know, teammate. It's that now I've got a responsibility.
And it's kind of crassly put in First Corinthians 7. But my interests are now divided. I can't only just say, how can I serve the Lord and the things he's called me to do every day? But how can I be a good husband? How can I be a good leader? How can I be a good provider? How can I be a good defender of my wife to love her?
Of course, the highest calling is like, Christ loved the church.
Speaker 2
I want to jump back to Carlin. And obviously, when you started at UCI, you didn't know where you were going to end up, but you had a goal, you had plans for your life. What were you intending to do, you thought, in your life?
Speaker 3
At that time, I actually was thinking of going into being a doctor. That was my initial goal. And then when we were dating and doing more ministry together, I realized that might not be the best use of where I'm supposed to go in my life.
So then I just started gravitating towards potentially doing education and becoming a teacher and being able to figure out how I can best serve in a way that I could have a job, but also would translate into ministry and translate into my future life as a pastor's wife.
Even when I was at UCI, I was dating Mike then, so I could see where he might be going. So, yeah, I picked education. And of course, that's all I do now. But it's just I don't teach children now; I teach women and mentor. And so it was the perfect fit.
Speaker 2
You know, I'm sure there's some people listening out there who have spouses that don't live up to the biblical expectations that you guys just sort of outlined in your own relationship.
How would you counsel a husband or wife who isn't doing what they're supposed to do or dealing with a spouse that isn't doing what they are supposed to do, as God has called them to do as a husband or wife?
Speaker 4
Well, it's easy for us to spout these ideals. We don't even live up to our own ideals in terms of being, you know, providers and protectors, defenders.
Speaker 3
Oh, come on.
Speaker 4
And all of that. I mean, what we need to know is what the ideal is. And I think that's what obviously Focal Point is all about. Every good pastor preaching the Word in his pulpit every week is trying to show us what God's will is for us: to reflect the grace of God, the gospel, and the goodness of God's design in marriage. So at least we need to know what it is. That's the starting point for all of us.
We're all going to feel inadequate, I suppose, or at least deficient in many areas. But if you don't know what the Bible has to say regarding what it is to be a godly wife or a godly husband, then we're not even going to know where to start. Most people today, unfortunately, are drawn together in relationships because of their feelings, and they're trying to find their way into a place of equilibrium in a marriage so they can feel good, as opposed to saying, "God's called us to be people conformed to the image of his Son."
We're called to be a reflection of God's biblical revelation when it comes to relationships like marriage. What we want to do is to learn what that is. So I would invite any Christian, if you really want to be who God wants you to be, to study what God's Word says about this. I know we have lots of things on Focal Point that provide that kind of template in teaching series, but start there.
Because even the more you learn about what it means to be a good husband or a good wife, I think you get excited as a real Christian to say, "I want to live up to that. I want to do that. I want to be more of what the Bible says I should be."
Speaker 3
Right. And instead of being a 50, 50 person, where I bring 50% to the marriage and my husband's supposed to bring 50% to the marriage, you start to realize that when you're obedient to Christ, you're bringing 100% of yourself to being obedient as a wife in your marriage.
And that's what I can speak to: you've got to give yourself 100% to what the Lord calls you to, regardless of what you're getting back. You should be obedient to the Lord and fulfill the calling that He has for you in the pages of Scripture.
Speaker 2
Some people haven't had a chance to come to Christ before they were married, like both of you did, and have some of these things in mind.
So they have maybe a more difficult time in a marriage where one spouse has become a Christian and the other hasn't.
How would you counsel someone like that?
Speaker 4
I like even what you just said, Carlin. There's so much about recognizing. I'm not waiting for the other party to do something biblical or right or righteous before I start saying, how can I be the person that I should be in this relationship?
So don't wait, don't say, well, I would be a great support to my husband if only he were a loving person like Christ loved the church, or I'd love to sacrifice for my wife like Christ did for the church. But I don't see my wife being the kind of respectful wife and supportive wife that I see here in Ephesians 5.
I just think you got to go back to saying what is my responsibility? My wife could be completely different than she is, and I still have an obligation to try and live up to what God has called me to be as a husband.
So I think you have to see, first of all, you're going to stand before the bema seat of Christ, the judgment seat of Christ as a Christian, be evaluated, and you're going to be giving a response to God and his Word and what he said you should do and be alone.
I have to stand before God alone. And I'm going to stand there and not be able to point at my wife and say, well, I would have been this kind of person if only she wasn't that kind of person.
So think independently in terms of how you are going to give an account for being the person God has called you to be.
Speaker 3
Right. And we just recently did some teaching on Proverbs 31. And you know, we tend to make excuses that we don't want to be the Proverbs 31 woman because we're not married to a man who could live up to, you know, that, that we would not, we would be a more excellent wife if our husband was more an excellent husband.
And the bottom line is that list and the lists and scriptures of what to be a godly wife. It's not my husband's list. It's not a man-made list. It's a God-made list. And so I need to.
I was thinking exactly what you were thinking: we're going to stand before God alone, and I'm going to have no excuses that will work. At that point, the only thing I can do is follow what the Lord asks me to.
And sometimes that's hard. And quite frankly, that's hard as a wife when your husband isn't necessarily doing what you know is right or leading your family in the way you know is right.
And you have to continue to be in the Word, continue to work on your own obedience to Christ and fulfilling what he has for you, and begging honestly for his grace to be able to do the next day and the next hour what it is that he would call you to in Scripture before even a non-believing husband.
Speaker 4
Picture it just in light of your training. I think of you as a teacher; you're a credentialed California teacher. If you were at a conference or even at your university, getting ready to go out into the teaching field, you don't know what to expect. You might be assigned a great classroom in, you know, Rancho Santa Margarita, or you might have the most difficult classroom in South Central LA or something like that.
It's about recognizing that it's not just about the environment. It's not saying, "Well, I'd be a good teacher if I only had a great classroom of kids." You have to strive to be the best husband or wife you can be, understanding that you're going to return to the place that credentialed you, and there will be an evaluation.
Now, clearly, God is going to cut some slack for those who face more difficult trials in their classroom.
Speaker 3
But you can't count on that.
Speaker 4
No, you can't count on that. But you can recognize the fact you're still called to be the best you can be in the role you're called to serve.
So I could have a much worse wife, obviously, and I'm still going to be held responsible for being a good husband.
And I have to be that good husband because I know God has commissioned me to be a good husband.
Speaker 3
Right? So you just keep doing what God asks you to do. But like Mike said, you have to be ready to know the Word so that you can know.
And it's not just about, you know, turning to one passage that talks about being a husband or wife. It's all the principles in scripture, from honoring one another to praying for one another. They're not just specific husband and wife things.
There's so much to being a good husband and wife that is found all throughout the scripture that we need to be obedient Christians. And it makes us better husbands and wives.
Speaker 4
The last sermon, I think I was preaching in person here, I was talking about how God himself provides such a great example of so many things that we're supposed to be. I mean, you see that all throughout Scripture. I want to look at everything in Scripture and say, how can I be the good steward that I'm supposed to be in all the different hats that I wear in life and certainly in marriage?
I mean, there's so much we can learn. It's not just about finding one word or one sentence, one verse, one passage. It's about the totality of Scripture and finding what it says about how I'm supposed to serve Christ in every role I have.
And one of the most important roles you're going to have is being a husband or a wife.
Speaker 2
You know, as you were talking about how you met and just before your engagement, that difficult conversation, I was just thinking you established those priorities early.
You know, maybe you could speak briefly to those that are thinking about getting married and give them some premarital wisdom.
Speaker 4
Yeah, well, we'd probably start with that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think the most important thing, actually, is that when people ask me what the key to a happy marriage is, I believe it’s essential to have your own relationship with the Lord. You have to be spending time with Him every day. You have to be learning from His Word. You have to be praying concentrated prayer time so that you can be an obedient Christian.
That is the key to being happily married: being an obedient Christian. If the Lord is the first love of your life, you can be the wife that you're supposed to be. So to me, that's the most critical aspect. I need to have time with Him every day, even if I'm, you know, married to a less than excellent husband, which I am not, just to be very clear.
Speaker 2
Thanks for clearing that up.
Speaker 3
Yes. Just wanted to make sure everybody knew that I have the most excellent husband.
Speaker 4
No, but you don't. But that's a great thought and very kind of you. The point, though, I think, is really a good one. And that is that when it comes down to it, I have to recognize my Christianity as the bedrock in terms of my relationship with God, of anything, before I step into any kind of relationship. Right before I take a job, before I get engaged.
Yeah. I want to make sure that my relationship with God is solid and it's real. And that, I think, is often neglected because people are looking for some idealized situation. If you find the right spouse, it's going to be blissful and the reality is it's not going to be blissful because you're a sinner and you're married to a sinner and there's a lot of problems in the world and we don't even live up, ideally, to the things we've just talked about.
But what we want to do is we certainly want to see God changing us and developing us and recognizing that it's about me being a faithful steward in my marriage.
Speaker 2
Well, thank you, Mike and Carlyn. I appreciate that and I know this will be helpful for all the married folks out there and I trust for those that are thinking about getting married.
If you have a question for Pastor Mike, you can go to focalpointradio.org and submit it on the Ask Pastor Mike page.
Speaker 1
Dave, thank you, Jay. You're listening to Focal Point and a warm and candid interview with Pastor Mike and Carlin Febaraz together. It's a special edition of Ask Pastor Mike on Cultivating the Biblical Marriage, and you can hear it again at focalpointradio.org.
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Focal Point is dedicated to bringing you the truth of God's Word without compromise. Your quest for biblical truth is the reason why Focal Point presents these studies with an emphasis on contextual clarity. Thanks for helping advance our mission for solid, expository Bible teaching with your timely donation today. By giving, you're standing with us on the power of God's Word to effectively answer all the hard questions of life.
So give generously online today at focalpointradio.org, and while you're there, don't forget to find out about the free message from Pastor Mike called Rethinking the Importance of Your Marriage. I'm Dave Droueh, wishing you a wonderfully restful weekend ahead. Pastor Mike Febarez returns after the weekend with more about the divine test of marriage. So be sure to come back Monday for Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.
Speaker 2
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