Speaker 1
Disagreements in marriage? Are you kidding? Well, when two become one, it can be a challenging process, especially when you disagree with your spouse. But you're about to get tips on smoothing it over right now on Focal Point.
And welcome to Focal Point. I'm your host, Dave Drouy. Today we're going to enjoy a conversation with Pastor Mike and Carlin Favares about the challenges of married life.
Now on today's edition of Ask Pastor Mike, we're getting down to the nitty gritty of family life by talking about resolving conflict in marriage. If you want one thing, but your spouse wants another, how do you come up with a plan that solves the problem and keeps the peace?
Well, let's join up with Focal Point executive director Jay Wirton inside the pastor study.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Dave. Here we are again with another Ask Pastor Mike on Marriage. I have with me Pastor Mike and his wife, Carlyn Fabarez.
Well, guys, in previous Ask Pastor Mike's on Marriage, we have discussed what a biblical marriage looks like and practical ways to maintain that biblical marriage. But unfortunately, there are always hiccups, those times that we have some conflict.
So today we need to deal with those things. What are some of the things? I know you both have counseled married couples. What are some of the things that you have seen that cause conflict in marriages?
Speaker 3
I like the way you asked that, the way we counseled couples, because, of course, we've never had any conflict.
Speaker 2
That's why I brought it that way.
Speaker 3
That's very helpful. Yes. Well, of course we have conflict, and every marriage has conflict. I mean, there's no doubt about it, man. I don't know, Carlin, what do you see as. I mean, money is always a problem.
Speaker 4
Yes. And parental issues are always a problem.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Parenting, knowing, making decisions about your kids.
Speaker 3
Yep. I mean, certainly there are things I wanted to do with the kids and Carlin wasn't keen on it, or things she wanted to do and I wasn't keen on. And yeah, I mean, I think everything that relates to decisions. Right. I mean, there's so much battle, it seems, between I make a decision, you make a decision. We don't like the decision.
I mean, we're just human beings with two different sets of eyes on every situation. And it's hard. You're gonna have conflict in marriage, and conflict by that, I mean, there's just gonna be disagreements. You're gonna disagree on how to do everything—how to, when to go on vacation, where to go on vacation, you know, what to do with an off day. Should I, you know, whatever it is, I mean, there's always something that we're gonna have two different views on.
I don't know, Carlin, what are some of the things we hear from people and the things that we deal with?
Speaker 4
We definitely have to deal with conflict. Even when it comes to who makes the decisions about what, you know, and even in spiritual issues, who makes the decisions about what?
Training, scheduling, calendar giving, dinner giving.
Yeah. Dinner's out, dinner's home.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
All kinds of things.
Speaker 3
Yeah, schedules. That's a big. That's a big deal.
Speaker 2
You mentioned something early on, conflict, and you said different views on that. Conflict has become such a pejorative word, but it doesn't necessarily need to be.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. Because disagreement is really at the base of it. Right. The idea is we disagree and there are ways to deal with your disagreement and it doesn't.
Speaker 2
Healthy ways.
Speaker 3
Yeah. There are better ways than others. Right. I mean, there's no way around the fact that if you have two different views on something and two different desires and two different desired outcomes, you're going to have some conflict.
But, I mean, you talk about what underlies that. I mean, ultimately, it's not getting what you want. Right. I mean, that's what causes conflict. When you do something, Carlyn, that blocks what I want in some way, it can be as small as what I'm going to do some afternoon or what I'm going to do some weeknight.
I come home and say, this is my expectation and that's your expectation. And as soon as I feel like what I want is somehow thwarted, that's the challenge. That's the basis and ingredients for conflict, is it not?
Speaker 4
Absolutely. I mean, it could be as simple as deciding what time you are going to go to bed at night with your spouse. You know, some are early birds, some are late nights.
I mean, that's one of the first things you have to deal with as a married couple. There's differing expectations, and you got to figure out how to deal with it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. How late to stay at an event at church? I mean, we're at church all the time, but, you know, is it time to go now? Should we stop and talk to that person?
You know, how do we balance our expectations when she has a set and I have a set? When it comes down to it, sometimes it turns into a real warfare, you know, when there's a real archetype argument. I think so often it's the selfishness of saying, "I want what I want, and I don't want to bend. I don't want to budge."
Whether it's about what I want with the kids, our money, or our time, I think you've got to recognize that a lot of the things that are growing out of conflict, the things that fuel the conflict, stem from a real selfishness of wanting things my way and being inflexible with that.
Speaker 2
You said people take on different roles maybe in the decision making a little bit. You talked a little bit about that.
Is that appropriate? Should a wife take on a leadership role in a particular area and a husband take on a different leadership role in another area?
And that's how you deal with the conflict or the issues that may come up from that.
Speaker 3
It can be. I mean, there are certain decisions you make that you say, here is something I want you to have complete autonomy over. Deal with this, figure this out. But ultimately, that doesn't in any way undermine what the Bible has to say regarding leadership in the home. Ultimately, a husband in scripture, as unpopular as it is to talk about today, is going to be held responsible for the leadership of the home.
It's like my role here in the church. We have several pastors on staff, and I'm the senior pastor. And I understand there comes some responsibilities with that. It doesn't mean in any way that I'm making all the decisions, right? Of course not. I've got a team of guys that are making a lot of independent decisions, and they do that because there's a set of agreements that say, this is your area, this is our area, this is what we're going to decide together.
That's the kind of thing that happens in the home all the time. I mean, right, Carlin? There's plenty of situations. You know, there's no interest at all that Mike has in getting involved in that. And then there's others. You say, I better. I better sit down with Mike and figure this out.
Speaker 4
Yes, it's like delegated responsibilities. You know, we delegate things in the home. We delegate. Even certain parts of our budget are delegated to me, and I have the authority to make decisions about that.
And I don't have to, you know, ask Mike if I can drive through and get a Diet Coke today on my way home, because, you know, I have control and delegated authority over a portion of our budget. But we've decided that together.
I don't have to ask about every single little decision, even though he is the leader in the home, because we've discussed it and he's delegated certain authority to me over schedule, over calendar, over children, over lots of different areas.
Speaker 3
But your example was so minuscule. When it comes down to it, you've got so many things, big decisions you're making has nothing to do with saying, you know, I know Mike's expecting to weigh in on this. There's so much that. That I don't.
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
And especially in my home, I feel like I have such a great wife that is so capable that, you know, when we say, go, plan this, figure this out, do this, and she has the same expectations for me in certain areas.
I mean, I think some people think it's crazy the kinds of delegation that we have in our marriage in particular, which I would be embarrassed to say all of them. But I mean, some things, it's like Carlin will say, I don't even care what you'd plan for vacation, just plan it. Which I know most women wouldn't want to do necessarily, but hopefully I prove myself in planning good vacations.
Then there are other things I say, I don't even care what you choose to do with this house or this part of the house, or, you know, spend this, do whatever you have to do, just manage it. We have that kind of delegation of responsibility, I think, in our home that may be more extreme than other homes.
But we certainly aren't sitting there saying we have to agree on everything or we have to consult on everything. I think that's helpful. The expectation of some of that independent decision-making, I think, is very helpful in our marriage, at least.
Speaker 4
And that's been forged out through years. I mean, that's not something you. You walked into the first day and went, here's all the things we're going to. It's a give and take discussion over years.
Speaker 3
But the great thing about Carlyn, I think, in our marriage is that. And I hope I do the same when I recognize her leadership over a certain area of our home or our life or whatever our budget, whatever it might be. I try to be as flexible, just like I do in my job and at work and in the church. And I think she does the same.
I think that kind of willingness to say, I'm going to let Carlyn figure this out, and I am going to respect where this ends up. Now, not everything is that way. Obviously, we have a date night every week. We talk about things in our home. We're having our date night tonight. We'll go out. I mean, we'll talk about stuff that we need to decide together.
And certainly in parenting, a lot of it's that way, too. You know, when you're dealing with the kids, particularly when they're small, there's a lot of decisions you have to make. Should they go on this camp? Should they be a part of this team? You know, they want to be in travel ball? Should we let that happen? Those are the kinds of decisions we're going to sit down and we're going to talk about.
But so much of the rest of our lives, the division of labor, if you will, and saying, okay, you do this, I do this. Just being flexible. When my wife makes a decision, I say, well, I wouldn't have made it that way. Well, then I'm going to shut up about it. I don't need to voice that. And I think Carlyn does a great job of not being critical of my leadership decisions.
Speaker 4
And that's a great point. You know, if you've delegated authority, you can't sit there and be the peanut gallery in the back saying, well, that's not how I would have done it. I mean, that was such a great comment that you made there. If the delegation of the authority is in my camp, then you've given me permission.
And I'm not saying I never talk to you. That's where I was going when you were talking, was thinking about just even the amazing thing that we have cell phones and text messaging. We are constantly, if you saw Mike's and my thread with one another on our text messaging, we're constantly talking.
But we're also here and there at least every couple of days, talking about decisions that have to be made and bouncing things off of each other. It's not like we never talk about these things just because I've been delegated that authority. We're constantly getting input from one another about all these things.
Speaker 3
Even today, I was just gonna say we kind of got far afield from our initial topic. But that's helpful because when there's conflict, I think so often there hasn't been clarity about, you know, what we're going to do. If there's something important that we're going to have two separate opinions on and we have to consult, well, then we better consult ahead of time. And we may not be happy with the compromise, but when it comes to a lot of the things in our marriage, which I do think is probably more than most couples, of saying, listen, you take care of this, I'll take care of this, then we just avoid conflict by saying, I'm going to be flexible.
And I hope we're that way. I mean, I don't want to misrepresent our marriage, but I feel like there's a kind of willingness for both of us to say, it doesn't really matter. I'm not going to care so much about that. Lowering our expectations. I think being involved in church and ministry, which all of our listeners can do, get involved in other people's problems, and you will start to recognize the things that most couples argue about probably aren't even worth arguing about.
I mean, just to care about the bigger issues of life. And you can do that by rolling up your sleeves and serving in the local church. I think it can short circuit and help you step around a lot of the conflicts that seem so petty in other marriages.
Speaker 2
Let's talk about conflict a little bit more, but maybe let's get underneath. What are some of the emotions and attitudes maybe, that are causing conflict in marriages?
Speaker 3
Well, it's certainly, I think, anxiety, if you think about what we've just talked about. If I'm anxious about, well, we're going to miss an opportunity to do what I want, or I'm afraid that perhaps my kid is going to get hurt if we let him do this, or, you know, we're going to let the kids stay up, whatever. I don't know. It's just all the little things that you can worry about.
And Carlin and I have for a long time tried to talk out, well, what if, you know, what if. What if the thing happened that we're so scared is going to happen? And most of the things we're worried about and anxious about that causes the conflict in marriage, you recognize it's not that big of a deal. It's really not that big of a deal.
And I think you've got to think it through. Why do we worry? Satan is so good at deceiving us into worrying about things that don't really matter.
Speaker 4
Matter and most of them don't even happen. That's the other thing. You're wasting time on something that will probably never happen.
Speaker 3
Right. And Carla and I have talked about this on previous broadcasts. But if you don't have your own time in the Word to be able to deal with things like pride and patience and just kind of the irritability that comes by not being in sync with God's spirit, I think you're going to have a lot more conflict.
Because as you use the word emotions, there's a lot of emotions that get quelled every day when you spend time praying and you spend time in the Word. And that is so helpful, I think, to kind of get that pacified in my relationship with God, get my own heart settled and then go into my day and get into my, you know, whatever it is, decision making with my wife or date nights or whatever it is. That's super helpful.
Speaker 4
Well, and I was gonna say, I think my number one thing I think that I would say causes conflict in marriage is selfishness. You know, I. You brought it up earlier. I want what I want and I want it the way I want it and I want it when I want it and I want it how I want it.
I mean, when those things are what's ruling your heart, you can't let things go. There's so many things in marriage we just need to let go. And so many of them don't matter, but so many of them are just tied up with what I want, my unmet expectations instead of thinking through what does this really matter?
Speaker 3
And I was going to say after the fact too. You got to let it go after the fact when something happens and it's not the way I wanted it to be. And I think Carlin is good at this, being able just to forgive it and let it go.
And I think if your expectations aren't met, right, because the night has already happened and we didn't get to do what we planned on doing or what you wanted done, I just think to be able to say, let's just forgive. It's a great word. I preach on it all the time. The Greek word for, you know, forgiveness, that word feomi, to let it go, to release it, just give it up, put your palms down and let it drop out of your hand.
If you can be good at forgiving, and I think you were just describing Carlin, a forgiveness before it happens, a kind of a flexibility and openness. But even if your expectations aren't met, to let it go, can we just start over? Let's start fresh and move forward, let go the frustration.
Speaker 2
So let's say you haven't done that and now you've got some unresolved conflict. How do you guys deal with that? And how would you counsel others to deal with that?
Speaker 3
You know, I think the world is going to say, if it's an unresolved conflict, let's get it all out on the table and fight it out. And, you know, let's make sure every last expectation and disappointment is on the table.
But I think Carlin and I have learned, and I think there's something to this in terms of bearing with one another and forgiving each other as Christ has forgiven us. To quote Colossians, you've got the idea of just sometimes the conflict is going to go away if you just sleep on it or if you just give it a couple of hours.
I don't think everything has to be settled point by point and issue by issue.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I think we're sold a bill of goods in our world that we're supposed to. It's the right thing to do, to vent and to share everything that you feel when all it does is put this on a loop in your spouse's head and they have to deal with those words that you have said, not just an hour later, but a week later and a month later and a year later when it's not necessary for us to share every single thought that's in our head or every single feeling that's in our head.
Time makes a big difference. Mike's right. So is sleeping, waiting till the next day to think this through, have a good meal. He said, take a walk, maybe go to the gym. But thinking it through over time instead of immediately is super important.
And, you know, if you need to vent, venting to a journal, venting to the Lord. Although even that I would caution because I feel like at some point you have to have a high enough view of God to realize who you're talking to when you're venting to him and shaking your fist at him and saying, I'm complaining about the big oaf of a husband you gave me, God. I mean, that's not right either.
That sounds like the garden, you know, venting to God. Yes, but hopefully you're learning God's Word at the same time and you're able to go, okay, this is the person I'm talking to here. I need to temper my venting because I'm talking to the living God.
Speaker 3
Right. And you mentioned the garden. The garden in Genesis 3, when Adam ends up blaming the situation on his wife.
And I do think we can go to God sometimes irreverently, although there's a balance there. Certainly in Scripture, you see people venting their frustration to God, and I get that. Habakkuk's a good example. Psalm 78. There's just a lot of good examples in Scripture of that.
But there has to be a sense in which even with God, there's restraint in our lips, as Ecclesiastes says.
But I agree with you 100% that venting to your spouse when you're just frustrated is generally not a good idea. I'd rather sit down and pray it out or write in my journal. Like you said, do something that's going to try and unravel my thoughts.
Speaker 4
And this sounds funny, but I think if you have a pattern in your life of actually serving on a regular basis where you're serving other people, you tend to get out of your own head about your own issues. Most of them are petty issues that you're dealing with, and not all. Of course, there are some huge issues that people are dealing with, and that's not what I'm talking about. But most of our conflicts are about petty things that don't matter.
When you start to serve others, we often make these petty issues seem bigger than they actually are. We've made a mountain out of a molehill, right? You know, because if we just look at other people who are in pain in our church and we serve them, or we serve children in our midst, or we serve singles in our midst, and even high schoolers, we start to get the eyeball off of ourselves.
It gives us a different perspective, I think, on our conflicts and it helps us reflect on what really matters 100 years from now. Can I let this go? Is this really that important? Serving others helps. It gives us an eternal perspective even.
Speaker 2
Is there a diagnostic about how much we should say and not say? Where's that line?
Speaker 4
I guess you mean to our spouse. How much do we say and how much? I would say you probably shouldn't be having a deep discussion with your husband or even a constant dripping. I have that verse: it's better to live on a roof than be with a constant dripping wife.
In my car, I have a post-it note right now that reminds me it's better not to say things until you're having a regular quiet time—a really good regular quiet time. And then, after you're having that or you're spending time in prayer and you still feel compelled to talk to your husband about it, then maybe that's the time to have a sit down.
But a constant dripping is not good. Saying everything you think is not good. Saying it even right this second when you're all emotional is not good. I mean, I think all of those are parameters that we should have around what we should say and how much. You brought up how much. I try to determine that when I'm in prayer with the Lord; not everything needs to be said. So I think that prayer really helps me temper.
Speaker 2
That sounds like taking some time. Let the emotion quell. So that gives you an opportunity to say, okay, what's logically, what's important for me to talk about right now?
Speaker 4
Absolutely.
Speaker 3
I think we say too much often in conflict; you can never get those words back. It's better just to bite your lip.
You know, God gave us two ears, right? One mouth. Be. Be quick to hear, slow to speak.
And I think that's just it. It needs to be the pattern of our communication, especially when we're frustrated.
Speaker 2
If you were speaking to married couples right now and they're dealing with this, what's one takeaway, one key thing, if they could work on this, it would help them immensely in conflict in their marriage.
Speaker 3
Well, I would say one of the things we often talk about, even in premarital with people, is, you know, if you think the whole point of your marriage and your spouse is to make you happy, right? If you think this is going to fulfill you, as Carlin likes to say with her famous illustration, which you may have stolen from someone, I don't know, but, you know, to have two ticks and no dog, you know, trying to suck the life out of some host, but really there is no host.
They're just trying to get fulfillment and satisfaction and significance and security from the other person, then you're going to be frustrated. I think unmet expectations are causing so much of our conflict. And I think what we need is to recognize, as Carlin always says, that we have to find all of the profound needs of our lives in our relationship with God.
Then we're freed up and healthy enough spiritually, I think, to be able to meet the needs of other people and care. If not, you're going to be constantly disappointed. And when you're disappointed with unmet expectations, you're going to be mad at your spouse, and you're gonna have a lot of conflict.
Speaker 4
And for me, prayer is the key. I mean, I've said it a couple times, but it's true. Prayer is the key. If you have conflict in your marriage, you need to be spending, I think, more time praying about it than you're stewing about it and talking about it. I would say even just give it equal time. If you're gonna talk to your husband, give prayer equal time.
And what I mean by that is you go in your prayer closet, you shut the door, you have nothing, no computer, just you and God talking about it. I always tell women they need to be praying about whatever this conflict is, whatever this issue is, for days on end. Try it for a week—15 minutes a day in your prayer closet, praying for nothing else but that one thing.
See if you don't come out and deal with your conflict differently, and if you say the right amount of words to your husband about this conflict instead of too many or too few.
Speaker 3
Listen to your prayers. Just make sure your prayers aren't, "God, change him. God, change him. God, change him. I want things my way. Do it my way. God." I mean, you got to look at how selfish and childish our prayers so often are.
We need to be wanting God's glory in our marriage. We want God's honor. We want what's good and right and best. And a lot of times that doesn't mean I get all my desires met or that everything goes my way. A lot of times, God is shaping me by having me live as an imperfect person with an imperfect wife.
You know, and that imperfection I've got to recognize is going to always remind me that I have to change as much as I want my spouse to change. It's important that I just don't pray selfish prayers when I pray.
Speaker 2
Well, I think that's tremendous advice and I'm sure that will be a great help to our married couples out there and those even planning on getting married. So thank you both for being here and doing that.
Speaker 3
Great to be here.
Speaker 2
And remember, if you have a question for Askmaster Mike Broadcast, you can go to focal pointradio.org and submit it on our Ask Pastor Mike page. Back to you, Dave.
Speaker 1
Thanks, Jay. You're listening to Focal Point and a conversation with Pastor Mike and Carlin Fabarez together. It's a special edition of Ask Pastor Mike on the hot topic of resolving conflict in marriage. Listen again or download the audio file to share with a friend by going to focalpointradio.org.
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Give generously online today at focalpointradio.org, and while you're there, don't forget to find out how you can get the free message from Pastor Mike called *Rethinking the Importance of Your Marriage*. I'm Dave Drouy wishing you a restorative weekend ahead. Join Mike Fabarez next time with strong encouragement for those recovering from divorce. That's Monday on Focal Point. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.
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