Ask Pastor Mike Fabarez

Speaker 1

Today on Focal Point, we're clearing our schedule to ask Pastor Mike an important question from a listener. So stay tuned. You're invited into the pastor's study to join Pastor Mike Fabarez for a look at the gray areas of life.

Well, it's the end of another week. Welcome to Focal Point. I'm Dave Drewie, your host for this special edition of Ask Pastor Mike. For the next half hour, we'll join Pastor Mike and Executive Director Jay Wurton as they tackle an intriguing listener question.

Now, if you have something you'd like to ask yourself, you can post it at focalpointradio.org/connect. But right now, grab a cup of coffee, get comfortable, and let's sit down together for today's edition of Ask Pastor Mike.

Speaker 2

Thanks, Dave. I'm here with Pastor Mike in the pastor's study.

Well, Mank, if you're ready, let's jump right into today's question. A listener wrote in and is asking, what is the difference between the conscience and the Holy Spirit?

So how do those two function in our lives?

Speaker 3

Well, they're similar, and that's why the.

Speaker 4

Question is posed, because obviously they're so similar.

Speaker 3

You know, like, what's the difference between.

Speaker 4

A malt and a shake? You know, they're a lot alike, so that's why the question is even relevant. And they're a lot alike in this way. Let me talk about why they're similar. They both give us a sense in our own minds and our own feelings of either conviction or prompting. You know, they give us a sense of you ought to. And so our conscience gives us those same feelings. I think of Romans, chapter two, that talks about, you know, accusing and excusing us. That's what our conscience does. It gives us a sense internally of what, you know, was right and wrong, whether I should be justified or whether I should feel guilty. It gives us that sense.

And the Holy Spirit does the same thing. The difference is that the Holy Spirit is external. It's not me. He may be living in me, and in that sense, he may be internal, but he's not me. He's his own personality. He has nothing to do with my past or the conditioning of my life or how my parents raised me. The Holy Spirit is independent of all of that. My conscience, though, can become very conditioned, conditioned by my experience. I mean, for instance, if you do something wrong, I can feel really bad the first time I did it, when I was 12, you know, but by the time I'm 22 or 30, my conscience may have given up trying to convict me, and I just wore it down and overpowered it. So there's no conviction there from my conscience.

Or it may be that I've ignored some kind of prompting. You know, I don't know. It was a dumb example. But if I walk in from work and my wife's in the kitchen and I want to just plop down and sit on the recliner, and yet I feel like, you know what? I had to get up. I had to help my wife. I had to offer help. I ought to get in there and give her a hand. There's a prompting now. It feels a lot like the Spirit, maybe even when there's a prompting to share the gospel on a plane or something. You know, you ought to talk to that person about Christ, or you see them with a Bible and you think, I ought to bring this up. And the Spirit may be prompting me in that regard. Those are both similar.

But I can wear down that sense of prompting when it's my conscience because I can just keep on saying no to it until eventually I don't feel it anymore. The Spirit of God is independent of all of that. The Spirit of God is always going to be concerned about things that are true. And the way I can test that is by reading the Bible. In other words, the one that wrote the Bible is the one that is prompting and convicting us. He's the one that gives us that sense of shame and guilt when we do wrong. That's always in keeping with his word, and he's always prompting us to do the things that he spoke of in his Bible in the book that he wrote.

My conscience, on the other hand, may sometimes line up with that, and sometimes it may not. So there's the distinction. And I think like Romans chapter 14 says, we have to learn to distinguish between those two. The only way I can really do that with clarity is to open up my Bible and see, you know, is it a principle of God's word that would lead me to feel bad about doing this? Or is it, you know, something that God has commanded that would lead me to feel prompted to do this? Because I know that's what the Spirit is constantly trying to prompt and convict me of.

Speaker 2

You talked about our conscience being sort of deadened to those promptings. Is there a way it can be revived or unseered, as I think Bible would call it? Searing our conscience? Yeah.

Speaker 4

Seared or calloused conscience. Yeah. I mean, we can help our conscience along by continuing to read the Bible and see what the Bible says that God would care about, whether it's a sin or a command. I want to make sure that my internal calibration, if you will, is in sync with what the Bible says.

But again, remember, the advantage we have as Christians is if we're Christians, the Holy Spirit dwells in us. He's always going to be prompting us. And it's almost automatic that the Spirit of God is going to help prompt my conscience to get in sync. You know, in other words, and again, the only way I know it's the Spirit is if I'm reading my Bible.

I've got to see what the Bible says and then I've got to be able to say, okay, if he's prompting me in this, then that's the feeling I ought to have right now. I feel prompted to do the right thing, or if I've done wrong, you know, I ought to feel guilty about the thing I've done. I ought to be led to repentance and confess it and turn from it.

So, you know, my conscience and the Spirit, I want them to be synced up. And the best way to do that is to get in the Bible and see what the Spirit of God has written, what he says is right and what he says is wrong.

Speaker 2

You mentioned Romans 14 and it goes on to talk about others consciences. How are we responsible for that?

Speaker 4

Yeah, and we are according to that text. But all within reason, of course. You know, I can't control what everybody thinks about what I do, and he addresses that in the Book of First Corinthians. But when it comes to that particular passage, there are some big issues that sometimes, because of the conditioning of our culture, the whole Christian community may have a sense of guilt about.

And though they may not be inherently wrong, in other words, the Bible doesn't say anything, the Spirit doesn't say anything about that being specifically wrong. But my culture, the Christian culture I live in, has a sense of guilt about that. I need to respect that, and I need to not violate someone else's conscience by flaunting my liberties, which is really what's going on in Romans 14—a warning against flaunting my liberties, saying, "Well, the Bible says I can do this, so I'm going to do it. I don't care what you think about it."

But in reality, I need to care because the Bible says I love my brother, right? I need to think of it like in a marriage. There are certain things I wouldn't do because I know my wife wouldn't want that. It may be that, you know, hey, it's not wrong for me to go here or do this or say that. But there are certain things, because of my wife's sensibilities or whatever, I would avoid because she's there.

And so it's the same way in the church and with my friends at church or with people that are watching me, and even people in the world who may have a conscience problem with something I do. I need to be sensitive to that. In other words, there are things that are allowable that need to be restricted—liberties that need to be curtailed in my life because I care about what other people's conscience may do.

Speaker 2

Sometimes that can be taken too far. How do we know the boundary on that?

Speaker 4

Yeah, and I think there has to be some sanctified common sense, as I sometimes say in these things. I mean, the things that Paul is addressing in Romans 14 have to do with the dietary laws. And you want to talk about conscience that had been conditioned by the Old Testament commands regarding dietary laws. Well, there was a lot of that. So that was a big hot button of the day. The other one there was the day of worship, which of course, had been rescinded in terms of Saturday being the day of worship, as Hebrews clearly says. So you shouldn't have this sense of just, "I don't really care what anybody thinks." There needed to be a sensitivity to those things.

Now, today, the issue of seventh day worship, you know, worshiping on Saturday rather, and eating, you know, meat that was off the kosher list, those are not the hot buttons of our day. So we need to look at our day, use some common sense. What are the things that we know that if we did them in the lobby of the church, they would, as we put it, stumble people's conscience? They would violate their conscience and say, "Well, then those are the things I'm going to curtail in my life for the sake of love for my brother."

So I look at my life that way and I say, that's how I need to live my life in the Christian community. I need to be careful about what violates the conscience of people. And how do you determine that? Well, obviously, everything offends somebody, so I think you've got to be within reason. Paul uses the hot buttons of the day in Rome. We need to think through that in our case and then be very careful about those. Love our Christian brothers and sisters enough to know that we need to take their conscience into view when I'm making decisions.

Speaker 2

Well, thank you, Pastor Mike. Right now we're going to listen to a message you gave on this subject. It's called keeping a clear conscience.

Speaker 3

The last two verses of Romans 14, if you haven't already turned there, Romans 14, 22 and 23, state, "The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God." Now, this is not the theme verse for the anti-evangelistic Sunday school class, right? Unfortunately, that's the problem with the word "faith" here. It doesn't clarify that it's referring to faith in Christ. Most of us assume we're talking about faith in Christ, but that is not how this word is used here. Don't miss this; this is critical.

The topic has been gray areas—issues that are not expressly prohibited or commanded. These are areas that are debated among Christians. "Faith" here, in another way to translate the word, is "confidence." It's a confidence that we have that this is the right thing to do. It's okay; there's no problem if you have that confidence about X, Y, or Z, whatever the topic might be. The gray area, he says, keep it between yourself and God, and we'll see why.

"Blessed is the one, happy is the one. How great it is for the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves." But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats. This is the topic on the table by way of illustration in this text about the meat sacrificed to idols or not kosherly prepared. He doesn't clarify, but there are several reasons throughout Scripture that we see it might be an issue for people. Even though the rescinded laws of the Levitical priesthood and all the things that relate to the dietary laws are all gone, the ceremonial laws are fulfilled in Christ.

That's the issue on the table, and for us, it's a great paradigm and example for all the things we deal with that we're debating. But if you have doubts, it's a problem.

Speaker 4

Why?

Speaker 3

Because the eating is not from faith. There it is again. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

Speaker 4

Now again, don't miss.

Speaker 3

This is not the object of Christ. This is confidence. Confidence. What that's not colluded with in any way doesn't have any kind of infection by these things in verse 22, by some kind of part of my head that passes judgment on myself. You can see the schizophrenia in the bottom of verse 22. I'm approving it on the one hand, but I'm approving it. But still I'm passing judgment on myself in one part of my mind. Okay. Or easier word, verse 23. I'm having doubts that.

Let's just deal with the meat of this, which is the end of 22 and the beginning of 23. The issue of. Let's read it again. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. Flip it over. It would be a problem. And it's not a good thing. If you are passing judgment on the thing you say is okay, you're doing it, you think it's the right thing, but somewhere in your heart you're passing judgment on yourself. Whoever, different word for it. Doubts. Is condemned if he eats because the eating is not from faith. It doesn't have that pure sense of approval in your heart that it's all okay.

Some other words that may help. Misgivings. Apprehension. Use more technical words. Compunction. In my conscience. That sense of guilt that I might have, that kind of feeling that you know what? I think it's all right, but I don't feel like it's all right. It's. What? Maybe a better word for it. We need to be sensitive to this, to feeling conflicted. If we have that in our hearts, that we're approving it on the one hand, but on the other hand, I don't know. I still have some issues internally. That's what we're talking about.

And once you write that down, go back with me to Romans chapter two just to look at a classic passage on defining conscience. Conscience is so important in the Bible. I just love the way the ESV translates this. It gives us two words and they happen to rhyme. And it helps us to remember what our conscience does. It's that part of our heart, if you will, our soul, our spirit in our minds, that looks at a proposition or an opportunity. And it gives us either. Yeah, that's cool. Go ahead. No problem there. Or, I don't know. I don't think that's right. I mean, we have this conflicting heart.

Of course, the context is a little different and the subject is a little different here in Romans Chapter two. But in the middle there, you can see in verse 14, 15, 16, he's talking about issues of people out there who have no advantage of being in Sabbath school as kids. But they're, you know, they're not doing the egregious transgressions because they have a conscience. And he's saying, you know, they're doing by nature what the law requires. Of course, not perfectly, but they're doing it because they have evidence.

Verse 15 of the work of the law written on their hearts while their conscience. Now, here, he's going to describe what we're interested in seeing. This sense inside of us that bears witness to whatever the issue might be and their conflicting thoughts. There's our idea, there's the verbiage from which I get this point and want to kind of help us. Not just say, you know, doubts, but conflicting thoughts that accuse or even excuse them. Now, if you have thoughts that accuse, then it's bad, but you can have thoughts at the same time that excuse. You need to be able to, when it comes to gray areas, have only excusing.

And that is. This is good. There's no problem here. Be like if I came up to you after church and I said, would you help me out for the next half an hour? Right? And whoa, okay, yeah, sure. What do you need? Okay. And I say, oh, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go to the mall and we're gonna let the air out of...

Speaker 4

The tires in the parking lot. We're just gonna go around and do that.

Speaker 3

You're gonna immediately think, wow, no, that doesn't feel right.

What if I said to you, hey, my mom's car got a flat tire, would you spend a half an hour and just help me change the tire?

You're put off your lunch plan a little longer and all that, but you're gonna help me do that.

Think that through now, and you're thinking.

Speaker 4

About, why am I doing this?

Speaker 3

Now you're going to think, why am I doing this? When you're with me at the mall letting air out of tires, your conscience is going to be accusing you. But if you're thinking about the proposition of you going out and helping me change my mom's flat tire in the parking lot of the church, hopefully you're going to be like, oh, totally. It was, you know, put me back, time, my hands dirty, got a little smudge on my shirt. But you know what? It's okay for a good reason. I was helping out the pastor and the pastor's mom. That was a good thing.

I mean, that's how your conscience works. Now, here's the thing. What Romans 14 is calling for is that you have only thoughts in your heart of excusing you, that you think, this is all right, this is good. There are no thoughts in your heart of accusing you. This is the thing. Your conscience needs to be clear. We say it needs to be pure in the sense that there is no part of your heart that says you.

Speaker 4

Should not be doing this, right?

Speaker 3

Compunction, misgivings, apprehension, some part of your heart that feels guilty. If here's how, you know, moms used to put it, when in doubt, don't, right? Whatever the issue is, if you are doubting that you should be doing it, the discussion's over. Don't do it. I don't care what the gray area is. I don't care how many other Christians can do it and feel fine about it. If you can't do it and feel a—here's the word used in the Bible—faith, which means a confidence that's unmitigated, unpolluted with a feeling of guilt. That's what you got to have. I mean, that's a simple point. We don't need long on that.

But let me give a little sidebar here to tell you this. Here's the problem when it comes to me saying to you, would you help me out this afternoon? We're going to go do something. You're going to determine my assignment or my request for you to join me in the assignment. Just out of it's going to be in a vacuum. It's going to be a simple, okay, well, what is it? Because your desire is to do something else, this is just a new opportunity for you.

But when it comes to gray areas, we are drawn to consider gray areas because we want to do those things right. We have a desire to go there, to purchase that, to participate, to partake, to purchase, to put on—all of those things that we want to do. There's a desire there that is driving this. But you know what the Bible's going to say. Look at your conscience, check in with your conscience. Make sure your conscience is clear. Focus on it, give it attention, put the spotlight on it, and figure out whether you should or shouldn't do it.

Real quick, just on the continued sidebar, remember this. If you don't give your conscience a microphone to speak clearly into the issues of your life, it will eventually attenuate that volume until it doesn't even speak up anymore. Or to put it in a more simple way, you ignore your conscience, you damage it. And when you damage your conscience, right, it stops speaking up on the issues that you and I face.

Speaker 4

Don't do that.

Speaker 3

Let's use Timothy. First Timothy, Chapter four, verses one and two, talks about insincere liars. There are people who don't tell the truth, but they don't even know they're not telling the truth.

These people in First Timothy 4 know they're not telling the truth. The text states that those who are insincere liars are aware of the truth. They purposely ignore the truth and tell you a lie.

He mentions that they have had their conscience seared, which is the word for burned, and then calloused over.

Speaker 4

And there's a scar on it.

Speaker 3

And if you've got some scar and your body got one on my finger here, and there's a place on my finger, I can touch it, but I can't feel anything because of that scar. That's what your conscience will do if you keep ignoring it, if you keep doing things contrary to it. When you violate your conscience, all I'm telling you is you're setting yourself up for increasing problems because your conscience will stop being healthy. It needs to be healthy and it needs to be sensitive.

Do you know how to have a sensitive conscience? Number one, make sure you're a Christian. Because here's the thing about the Holy Spirit: the Holy Spirit works in conjunction with our Spirit. He works in conjunction with our Spirit to heighten our sense of right and wrong. And so we should have a heightened sense of conscience, certainly as it relates to what the Holy Spirit wrote, but even as it relates to things that we should judiciously decide are right or wrong.

The Holy Spirit is going to be that reality in our lives that will talk about attenuation. It will turn up the volume on our conscience. And lastly, and real practically here on.

Speaker 4

This sidebar, let's say this.

Speaker 3

You want your conscience to be a healthy conscience that you are sensitive to. You need more time in this book. The more you ignore this book, right, the less you can rely on whether your conscience is even accurate or even active in the decisions that you make.

To put it in the words of the Apostle Paul, and as long as you got your Bible off of Romans 14, let's go to Acts, chapter 24. Great statement, great Greek word, great translation of this. As Paul is in Caesarea maritime, there on the border of the Mediterranean Sea, Acts 24, he's before Felix, telling his story.

Drop down to verse 16. One statement of this is so good as it relates to conscience: "So I always take pains"—more on that in a minute—"to have a clear conscience toward both God and man." I'm going to look at what God...

Speaker 4

Says, and then even I have to.

Speaker 3

Consider what men are thinking. So I. I want to have a clear conscience. There's no. I really shouldn't have done that. I want to be clear about my conscience. That is a great statement.

Take pains is a word that is used in classical Greek for the guy in the exercise gym getting really sweaty, working hard, working out, toiling, taking pains, being willing to hurt. In looking at my conscience to see if it's clear enough, what am I trying to say in this point? Be super sensitive to your conscience. Look for anything that's conflicted.

I'm going to not participate. I'm not going to go there, not going to entertain myself that way. I'm not going to do that stuff because my heart is conflicted. Could know your heart, can you know it perfectly? I understand that you can't. I get that. But give some attention to your conscience a lot. Big deal.

Speaker 4

Why?

Speaker 3

Bottom of verse 23 back in Romans 14. Because if you don't have that faith, that clean conscience, that confidence, it's not commingled with passing judgment on myself. That faith, that confidence that doesn't have any doubts. If you don't have that, here's the problem. If it doesn't proceed, the decision doesn't proceed from that kind of confidence. It is. What's the last word of the chapter? Sin. That is a heinous word.

In the book of Romans, he speaks chapters to talk about the problem of sin. Hamartia. How bad this thing is, is that it really just think theologically sent Christ to the cross. Christ had to suffer and die on the cross. And what this text is positing for us, think this through, is that one guy can do one thing as a Christian and do it for the honor of God because his conscience is clear.

And the guy across the aisle can do the exact same thing. But if he is conflicted in his conscience, he has doubts, he's judging himself and down that there's something wrong with this, he can do the exact same thing. And for him, it is sin. And that should be like, oh, that's a big deal. Not to go too far off on this, but there is a kind of theology invading churches like ours that seem to think sin for a Christian is no big deal; it is a big deal.

If for nothing else, let me appeal to you that if you find that confidence, you will be vigilant. Because if in your heart some kind of doubt or some kind of conviction sets in, if you continue to do it, you will displease God; you will be in sin.

Speaker 4

And that's a big, big deal.

Speaker 3

Put it this way, number two, in your eyelid, if you're confident, whatever this gray area is, and you say, I am, I'm clean, I'm not conflicted, I have that faith as it's defined in this context.

Here's what I'm going to say. You still need to be vigilant. Be careful, be watchful, be alert, be circumspect. Think carefully to make sure that you don't fall into sin. Because that's what's at stake in the whole passage, is that you and I can sin if need be.

I'm willing to ditch the whole liberty for the sake of civility, peace, consideration, love, and unity in the Body of Christ. Let that be the upshot of our study through the gray areas in Romans 14.

Speaker 1

We're talking about navigating the gray areas in life here on Focal Point. Today's message from Pastor Mike Fabarez is called "Keeping a Clear Conscience," and you can get a copy of the complete unabridged broadcast when you go to focalpointradio.org. You know, biblical Christianity requires thought and intention. We think through what the Bible says is true and lead others into that process as well.

And that's why we need a book like "True for You, but Not for Me" by Paul Copan. While some things are a matter of opinion, truth isn't one of them. The trouble is, most people don't take the time to actually think through some of their assertions. This book breaks down arguments for 33 of the most commonly heard objections to Christianity and helps you discuss answers to their questions from Scripture.

The book "True for You, but Not for Me" is yours when you give a financial gift today by calling 800-80-832-05885 or online at focalpointradio.org. When you give generously to Focal Point, you're investing in the power of God's Word to clarify truth. And it's all made possible through the faithful partnership of listeners like you.

In fact, our Focal Point partners value Pastor Mike's forthright teaching and prioritize their giving with an automated monthly gift. Join this vital team today. It's easy to sign up online. I have, and we'll automatically send you today's valuable resource as a thank you.

And when you give a one-time gift of over $75, we'll also send you a flash drive loaded with our entire Presenting Christ series. It's available on CD as well. Call 883-205-885 or go online to focalpointradio.org.

Whether you give monthly as a Focal Point partner or make a one-time gift today, you're making a difference. I'm Dave Drouehe wishing you a restful weekend ahead. Come back next time when we'll continue the Presenting Christ series with Pastor Mike Fabarez, Monday on Focal Point.

Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.